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 Post subject: Re: Sidemount Courses
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:45 pm 
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Getting really interesting & technical ya, mantap ini thread.

Anyway, if Sidemount course done, it's also one of the perfect fundamentals for continuing your education here ya:

http://www.forumselam.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4498 (Cave Diving Course)

Cheers,
Chris

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 Post subject: Re: Sidemount Courses
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:22 pm 
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Christo del Mar wrote:
Getting really interesting & technical ya, mantap ini thread.

Anyway, if Sidemount course done, it's also one of the perfect fundamentals for continuing your education here ya:

http://www.forumselam.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4498 (Cave Diving Course)

Cheers,
Chris

Eh bro,

Can pm me details? The cave and also cost. Im interested.. Seems like quite free in Feb.

Been always wanted to dive in Indo cave but no chance.

Tolong kirim infonya ke Heliyanto dot kho @ gmail.com.

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 Post subject: Re: Sidemount Courses
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:52 pm 
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Hi guys,

What a super long discussion on this topic, thanks every professional divers in this small community who leave comment. I guess everyone have to cool down, thanks to this forum is for us to discuss and exchange information. Please forgive if I do make some somebody feels stepped sector, or violation of personal sensitivity。

Let's discuss again, I believe everyone is here to differentiate the SM & BM equipment configuration, let's try to control our emotions while leaving a comment here. Thanks again.

1) Yes, I do use single tank on Sm configuration, not necessary must be two tank.
Actually it's the coolest and closest form to free diving. You can see some single SM shots in the following videos :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buEriXwZ ... ptCkgEmC2Q

2) The only thing you have to consider is the negative tank at the beginning of the dive and the positive tank at the end. Both can be addressed very easily, so that you still can maintain perfect lateral trim. ( YES, majority diver will prefer BM single tank feel more balance, But I do saw a lot diver dive like a seahorse. Well, I believe still base on the diver comfort level and proper training. Can make both ( SM & BM get a perfect balance).

3) First, you don't get the feeling of free diving with a back plate on your back. You're stitched to it. SM is the more streamlined version of diving in general and you are more streamlined because the tank is protected an hided under you armpit. Second, a SM system like the RAZOR has way less water deplacement. We made test BM versus SM which ended up by less kicks and way less air consumption using SM.

4) As well here there a lot of reasons talking for SM because you have the freeness to place the weights wherever it needs to be. So trim weights can be placed by centimeters up and down. As well weight and lift is were it should be in the center point of your body. ( Is really base on the diver, some prefer Bm than Sm, they feel Bm can make better horizontal position then Sm ) The best to know is try them both underwater, you'll find out will kind of configuration will give you the best trim.

5)For sure you have to equally breath your tanks empty in SM, means it's a bit more task loading with switching regs. But if you can't do that as a diver then you shouldn't be in the water. As a goody of that you get two completely independent life support systems - more security. As for our sidemount training, we will tell our student to get ready in multitasking , always get more dive failure scenario to built the diver confidence and awareness.

6. Equipment is more streamlined on your body so no momentums etc.
The best thing is to try in the pool and normally take at least 20 minutes in a proper Razor setup so you will know which set up is more streamline.

All above is base on my personal opinion and some advice from my master, please correct me if I'm wrong.
When come to discussions, there's always pros and corn, no right and no wrong. Is still base on the diver decision to choose BM or SM configuration while diving. ( The comfortable level of the diver, ability and many more ).

I believe this topic will never end seems a lot diver still not concur in SM configuration in OPEN SEA. Well, I'm not against BM but is to Intro Sm diving, and discuss the benefit of SM. We're hope to get more information from all the experience diver.

Have a nice day and dive safe.

<Plan your dive,Dive your plan>

Cheers

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 Post subject: Re: Sidemount Courses
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 5:40 pm 
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Aloha Mike, i already read HP Hartmann's answer to you on his FB wall https://www.facebook.com/HP.Hartmann, but thanks to rewrite it again here dude. have a nice day ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Sidemount Courses
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:51 pm 
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I'm curious about break points....

I read and take a look at several SM gear, and I feel that the use of bungee cords to keep the tanks as vulnerable break points...

Other break points perhaps on the use of clips or bolt snaps to keep all your primary and secondary gas sources...

In the traditional hogarthian setup, we are trying to reduce or eliminate as much breakpoints as possible because it's a huge risk.

I've also learned that SM configuration actually requires different type of harness for different type of environment. Open water SM gear is different with the gear used for cave or wreck penetrations (e.g. the penetration gear should not use bungees for it's bigger risk of failure --> break point).

How's the view of the SM gurus on this?

Still can't imagine 'dangling' gears for a mere recreational dive in ocean environment...

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 Post subject: Re: Sidemount Courses
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:54 pm 
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BotolKecap wrote:
Surya Prihadi wrote:
Scenario 1
Assume one weight down an AL80 using 1.5 kg, with tank weight on a single tank SM system.

Om Surya, tidak disarakan penggunaan weight pada tank di SM. Untuk itulah di training SM diajarkan bagaimana mensiasati problem buoyancy tangki ini dengan "gas management".

Sebagai sebuah "agama" baru di dunia diving recreational, SM butuh waktu dan keyakinan tersendiri agar menjadi warna yang membuat indah dunia diving di tanah air.


Lae BK, kalo recreational single tank dive, gimana caranya tuh gas management? Setahu saya gas management itu dilakukan dalam multi-gas source, multi-tank diving...

Apa mungkin ngatur kapan napas kapan kagak napas? :D

Mohon pencerahan lebih lanjut sesuai petunjuk dari PADI manual atau sumber lainnya....

terimakasih om lae BK :ymhug:

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 Post subject: Re: Sidemount Courses
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:59 pm 
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ditajong wrote:
Kalo emang PaDI bilang SM adalah menambah safety dan memperbaiki drpd BM dan semua lbh mudah dipelajari nah kenapa PADI untuk open warer kok semua pake BM yah. Mungkin SSI, Padi, NAUI, CMAS blm pada tau kl SM lnh safe dan lbh mudah yah.

Tapi gak papa lah ini kan pembelajaran buat kita semua. Ayo om mike, deepsea, botol kecap, om hantu, rendra, christo semua dibuatin trial SM di kolam supaya blajar ara yg pake sm yg bener

Nb: kl sm gak ada integrated weight dong yah?


Dita, SM itu masuknya Specialty Training.... jadi bukan entry level training... paham? =))

Kamu jangan coba2 deh ambil specialty training, lah open water aja kagak lulus2 kan? kenapa coba? =))

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 Post subject: Re: Sidemount Courses
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:11 pm 
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Quote:
and btw, i have saw you involves in a few cave exploration here indonesia? hope i can tag along one day if you have such exploration. i can use backmount if you require me to do so


Yes I do involved in cave and wreck explorations here in Indonesia. Not everyone can join my team, it's a risky business and we want to be sure that the team consists of properly trained people that share the same passion.

I always believe in the use of proper configuration for the environment I am going. So it's no point saying you will use backmount if I require so. We always dive as team, and the team decides for the proper configuration. As an experienced and knowledgeable diver one should be able to decide for the proper configuration, not because someone tells you what to use. So in this case, I can't consider you as ready to join the team, yet.

Keep learning! :-bd

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 Post subject: Re: Sidemount Courses
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:23 pm 
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rendra wrote:
I'm curious about break points....

I read and take a look at several SM gear, and I feel that the use of bungee cords to keep the tanks as vulnerable break points...

Other break points perhaps on the use of clips or bolt snaps to keep all your primary and secondary gas sources...

In the traditional hogarthian setup, we are trying to reduce or eliminate as much breakpoints as possible because it's a huge risk.

I've also learned that SM configuration actually requires different type of harness for different type of environment. Open water SM gear is different with the gear used for cave or wreck penetrations (e.g. the penetration gear should not use bungees for it's bigger risk of failure --> break point).

How's the view of the SM gurus on this?

Still can't imagine 'dangling' gears for a mere recreational dive in ocean environment...


not much to worry about this..
in the basic sidemount open water course, you are given enough exercise on this scenario to handle bungee snap in seconds. anyway the bungee provided are rugged enough.. even for HP Hartman and Steve Bogaert himself never have their bungee snap despite brushing on tight restrictions so frequently.

and for RAZOR sidemount equipment, they comes with 2 bungee cord. you always bring that just like your extra mask. not sure about other brands.
just replace you bungee if it wear out.. as a technical diver, we should always check our equipment before we dive.

and for Razor system, we reduce the use of bolt snap. the top part we sling on our bungee without bolt snap. bottom part yes. also, in open water, you will be provided with training on bolt snap broken exercise.. it can be replace easily.


and for the RAZOR system, we all use the same harness for all of our dives. I have been using the same harness for a few years. still good. :)

the use on bungee in penetration is fine.. there is only one main bungee which is wrap around your body. bungee failure there are possibility, but until today we have not heard of any.

anyway, just replace it if it snap.. not much an issue.

for penetration actually everything much the same as using twin backmount. the only advantage of sidemount is when you meet a really tight restriction, you can just swing your tank to the front and continue your side, whereas in backmount, remove you BC is a no no.

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 Post subject: Re: Sidemount Courses
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:23 pm 
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rendra wrote:
Quote:
and btw, i have saw you involves in a few cave exploration here indonesia? hope i can tag along one day if you have such exploration. i can use backmount if you require me to do so


Yes I do involved in cave and wreck explorations here in Indonesia. Not everyone can join my team, it's a risky business and we want to be sure that the team consists of properly trained people that share the same passion.

I always believe in the use of proper configuration for the environment I am going. So it's no point saying you will use backmount if I require so. We always dive as team, and the team decides for the proper configuration. As an experienced and knowledgeable diver one should be able to decide for the proper configuration, not because someone tells you what to use. So in this case, I can't consider you as ready to join the team, yet.

Keep learning! :-bd


sure rendra :)

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 Post subject: Re: Sidemount Courses
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:34 pm 
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DeepOcean wrote:
rendra wrote:
I'm curious about break points....

I read and take a look at several SM gear, and I feel that the use of bungee cords to keep the tanks as vulnerable break points...

Other break points perhaps on the use of clips or bolt snaps to keep all your primary and secondary gas sources...

In the traditional hogarthian setup, we are trying to reduce or eliminate as much breakpoints as possible because it's a huge risk.

I've also learned that SM configuration actually requires different type of harness for different type of environment. Open water SM gear is different with the gear used for cave or wreck penetrations (e.g. the penetration gear should not use bungees for it's bigger risk of failure --> break point).

How's the view of the SM gurus on this?

Still can't imagine 'dangling' gears for a mere recreational dive in ocean environment...


not much to worry about this..
in the basic sidemount open water course, you are given enough exercise on this scenario to handle bungee snap in seconds. anyway the bungee provided are rugged enough.. even for HP Hartman and Steve Bogaert himself never have their bungee snap despite brushing on tight restrictions so frequently.

and for RAZOR sidemount equipment, they comes with 2 bungee cord. you always bring that just like your extra mask. not sure about other brands.
just replace you bungee if it wear out.. as a technical diver, we should always check our equipment before we dive.

and for Razor system, we reduce the use of bolt snap. the top part we sling on our bungee without bolt snap. bottom part yes. also, in open water, you will be provided with training on bolt snap broken exercise.. it can be replace easily.


and for the RAZOR system, we all use the same harness for all of our dives. I have been using the same harness for a few years. still good. :)

the use on bungee in penetration is fine.. there is only one main bungee which is wrap around your body. bungee failure there are possibility, but until today we have not heard of any.

anyway, just replace it if it snap.. not much an issue.

for penetration actually everything much the same as using twin backmount. the only advantage of sidemount is when you meet a really tight restriction, you can just swing your tank to the front and continue your side, whereas in backmount, remove you BC is a no no.


When talking as a tec diver, we believe that break point should always be worried. Remember the Murphy's Law? Anything that can go wrong, will go wrong...

Now, on this forum we've been reading about Razor so many times. Is this the only SM gear available in the market? What are the other available choices other than this Razor thing?

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 Post subject: Re: Sidemount Courses
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:01 pm 
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rendra wrote:
DeepOcean wrote:
rendra wrote:
I'm curious about break points....

I read and take a look at several SM gear, and I feel that the use of bungee cords to keep the tanks as vulnerable break points...

Other break points perhaps on the use of clips or bolt snaps to keep all your primary and secondary gas sources...

In the traditional hogarthian setup, we are trying to reduce or eliminate as much breakpoints as possible because it's a huge risk.

I've also learned that SM configuration actually requires different type of harness for different type of environment. Open water SM gear is different with the gear used for cave or wreck penetrations (e.g. the penetration gear should not use bungees for it's bigger risk of failure --> break point).

How's the view of the SM gurus on this?

Still can't imagine 'dangling' gears for a mere recreational dive in ocean environment...


not much to worry about this..
in the basic sidemount open water course, you are given enough exercise on this scenario to handle bungee snap in seconds. anyway the bungee provided are rugged enough.. even for HP Hartman and Steve Bogaert himself never have their bungee snap despite brushing on tight restrictions so frequently.

and for RAZOR sidemount equipment, they comes with 2 bungee cord. you always bring that just like your extra mask. not sure about other brands.
just replace you bungee if it wear out.. as a technical diver, we should always check our equipment before we dive.

and for Razor system, we reduce the use of bolt snap. the top part we sling on our bungee without bolt snap. bottom part yes. also, in open water, you will be provided with training on bolt snap broken exercise.. it can be replace easily.


and for the RAZOR system, we all use the same harness for all of our dives. I have been using the same harness for a few years. still good. :)

the use on bungee in penetration is fine.. there is only one main bungee which is wrap around your body. bungee failure there are possibility, but until today we have not heard of any.

anyway, just replace it if it snap.. not much an issue.

for penetration actually everything much the same as using twin backmount. the only advantage of sidemount is when you meet a really tight restriction, you can just swing your tank to the front and continue your side, whereas in backmount, remove you BC is a no no.


When talking as a tec diver, we believe that break point should always be worried. Remember the Murphy's Law? Anything that can go wrong, will go wrong...

Now, on this forum we've been reading about Razor so many times. Is this the only SM gear available in the market? What are the other available choices other than this Razor thing?



yes.. i agree. thats why we bring additional.

the second SM bc i will use maybe a Hollis SMS 50.

anyway, Halcyon is coming out with a SM BC. you can check it out at the link below.

Halcyon Contour.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56O4t3qwYG8

have not take a look at this set, so no comment about it. sooner or later i will give it a try.


for those hybrid type i would say it somehow defeat the purpose of sidemounting.

anyway, why i talk about razor is because i know the stuff works well. surely wont talk about something i do not have confident with or something i have not tried.

there are many available other than Razor. you can see hollis.. Diamond, Dive Rite, Apeks, Armadillo.. and many more..

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 Post subject: Re: Sidemount Courses
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:29 pm 
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rendra wrote:
Nah, om BK ini salah satu contoh instruktur yang baik, rajin mengikuti perkembangan training bulletin PADI. Tidak semua instruktur cukup rajin melakukan hal ini. Keep up the goodwork! :D
Ah, bukankah hal tersebut merupakan sesuatu yang wajib bagi seorang instruktur profesional om? Kalau nyari excuse ngga mo update perkembangan, ya mending tuh instruktur pensiun dini aja :D Masukan juga neh kalo bbx jadi mengeluarkan silabus sendiri dan bisa meluluskan instruktur yang baik: 1) secara berkala setiap instruktur harus mengikuti ujian refresh, jika grade ujiannya di bawah standar, wajib mengulang kembali proses jadi instruktur atau dipecat; 2) setiap instruktur wajib bekerja di bawah sumpah, karena ini menyangkut soal safety. Btw, thanks atas apresiasinya, semoga hal ini dapat menjadi inspirasi positif bagi rekan-rekan instruktur sekalian maupun yang berminat jadi instruktur yang profesional dan berintegritas.

rendra wrote:
Lae BK, kalo recreational single tank dive, gimana caranya tuh gas management? Setahu saya gas management itu dilakukan dalam multi-gas source, multi-tank diving...

Apa mungkin ngatur kapan napas kapan kagak napas? :D

Mohon pencerahan lebih lanjut sesuai petunjuk dari PADI manual atau sumber lainnya....
Menjawab pertanyaan om Ronny terkait gas management pada sm single tank, terutama dari sisi pengajaran PADI SM Rec, akan gw coba jelaskan. Ketika gw baca2 kembali dengan seksama PADI Instructor Guide, maka sepertinya ada kesalahpahaman mengenai istilah "gas management" yang dipakai di sm double dan single tank.

Pada double, ada 2 tujuan utama gas management. Pertama yakni menyeimbangkan kapasitas tangki kanan dan kiri agar bisa terpakai maksimal. Kedua adalah berusaha menjaga perbedaan buoyancy kedua tangki yang dapat menyebabkan ketidakseimbangan pada diver, dan tujuan kedua inilah yang sempat dibahas om Surya. Kedua tujuan ini merupakan satu kesatuan dari istilah "Gas Management".

Ketika dipakai pada single tank, hanya tujuan kedua lah yang lebih relevan dibanding tujuan pertama. Nah, gw baru menyadari, jika salah satu syarat tidak terpenuhi (AND) maka seharusnya tidak memakai istilah gas management, tetapi PADI pun tidak menjelaskan istilah apa untuk ini pada single tank. Berikut petikannya yang terkait dengan tujuan pertama dari gas management untuk single tank:

Quote:
7. With single-cylinder sidemount, you manage your gas as you normally do on a single cylinder backmount dive.

Terkait dengan permasalahan buoyancy, berikut kutipannya:
Quote:
The cylinder tails (bottoms) tend to float upward after you use about a third of the gas, so some divers put weights on them. Another option is to have high and low attachment points for different buoyancy states.
Quote:
Changing cylinder attachment points and sliding weights up or down on the cylinders (if you have weights on them) can help.
Gw secara personal, menghindari menaruh weight di tangki, mengapa? Salah satu syarat dalam pengajaran PADI SM Rec adalah melakukan penyelaman dengan minimum satu tangki terlepas dari lower attachment-nya dan meletakkannya ke depan diver sambil berenang, tentu hal ini akan merepotkan jika tangki diberikan pemberat tambahan. Walau hal ini tidak dilarang.

Untuk mensiasati masalah tangki positif, gw pribadi lebih memilih mengubah posisi attachment point ke daerah pinggang depan dengan bantuan D-ring dibanding nambahin pemberat di tangki. Tapi, berdasarkan pengalaman, hal ini terkait erat dengan bentuk tubuh masing-masing diver. Saat tangki full, gw yang langsing begini tidak masalah pakai attachment point yang berada di atas p4nt4t (butt), tapi buat yang bertubuh besar lebih cocok di pinggang samping.

Satu hal lagi, gw secara personal tidak cocok dengan SM double, karena gw memang mencari alternatif BM single tank, secara gw ngga suka tangki berada di punggung gw, lebih nyaman di samping. Personal choice.

Penjelasan ini sekaligus meluruskan soal istilah gas management di single tank. Ada rencana gw mo bikin postingan tersendiri soal PADI Sidemount Single Tank yang selama ini ada beberapa kesalahpahaman dan agar tidak tercampur dengan topik awal postingan ini.

Thx buat om Ronny yang pintar nanyanya, semoga menginspirasi member lain dalam bertanya yang baik tanpa tendensi negatif :x MERDEKA! :ymhug:


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 Post subject: Re: Sidemount Courses
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:57 pm 
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Bro BK,

Gas management definisinya sebetulnya cukup sederhana sih... (menurut gw), yaitu memakai gas yang sesuai dengan profil penyelaman. Intinya ini saja.

Nah, kemungkinan dalam SM double, gas management juga berarti gas-usage management dimana diver harus menyeimbangkan buoyancy pada kedua tank yang dibawanya agar si diver dapat terus streamline dan dalam trim yang baik. Jadi saya rasa apa yang disebutkan dalam manual PADI mungkin tidak salah:

7. With single-cylinder sidemount, you manage your gas as you normally do on a single cylinder backmount dive.


ya ini bener sih, kalau single cylinder, manage your gas as you normally do on a single cylinder bm dive, dimana dalam standard recreational diving kita juga harus memperhatikan:

1. pemakaian gas sesuai dengan profil penyelaman (misal: pemakaian nitrox vs. air);

2. penentuan turning point, misal harus memastikan akan tersedia gas dalam jumlah yang cukup untuk dapat kembali ke permukaan dan menyelesaikan safety stop --> kalau di technical diving, karena kebetulan volume gas yang dibawa cukup banyak, maka konsensus memakai rule of third. Tapi kalau ini diaplikasikan pada single tank diving maka pastinya gas supply terlalu minim untuk melakukan sebuah penyelaman yang menyenangkan. Selama recreational diver menyelam dalam batasan penyelaman yang normatif, rule of third bisa saja diabaikan dengan syarat kita tidak boleh sampai harus menghadapi situasi out-of-gas.

Nah untuk urusan buoyancy dan trim menurut saya protokol yang lazim digunakan dalam SM sudah cukup menjelaskan, diantaranya dengan cara melakukan kompensasi buoyancy pada kedua sisi tubuh penyelam dengan menggunakan lead weight lebih banyak pada satu sisi. Nah inilah salah satu bentuk additional task bagi setiap SM divers yang bagi BM divers tidak menjadi masalah.

Metode lain yang dapat diaplikasikan ya dengan cara memindahkan attachment point pada saat tank mulai berubah buoyancynya... dan sekali lagi ini adalah additional task loading yang pada BM divers tidak menjadi masalah (kita bicara perfect buoyancy ya)...

Kalau soal instruktur dan perilakunya, ini akan menjadi sebuah topik baru yang juga menarik. Instruktur sebagai role-model utama dalam pendidikan selam memang harus dikontrol kualitasnya. Program quality assurance tidak menjamin kompetensi instruktur dapat terukur secara akurat. Nah, beberapa agency (termasuk BBX), sudah mengadopsi model pengujian kompetensi bagi instruktur. Jadi tidak sekedar melakukan membership renewal, bayar sejumlah iuran, tapi juga dilakukan refresher/ ujian ulang secara periodik.

Seorang instruktur (dalam bidang apapun) dituntut untuk memiliki profesionalitas penuh sebagai seorang pengajar ataupun mentor. Masalahnya sebagaimana kita ketahui ternyata cukup banyak orang yang menjadi instruktur hanya semata-mata untuk mata pencaharian tanpa mementingkan kualitas, ataupun hanya sekedar untuk memiliki predikat instruktur sebagai 'cool factor'.

Saya cukup sering menghadapi diver yang kompetensinya sub-standard. Dan kondisi ini dapat dikatakan sebagai 100% instructor failure. Jadi instruktur yang bener itu nggak mudah. Instruktur harus punya passion untuk mengajar (bukan sekedar cari duit). Dan passion untuk mengajar ini yang nggak semua orang miliki. Saya nggak sekali dua kali pernah mengingatkan instruktur karena muridnya kedapatan tidak kompeten pada level yang sangat tidak dapat diterima.

Sebagai contoh, coba bayangkan, saya pernah menerima student di program buoyancy & propulsion coaching clinic yang tidak paham melakukan basic gear assembly (pasang BCD ke tank, kemudian pasang regulator, dst), padahal dia seorang PADI Rescue Diver yang memiliki dive log lebih dari 300 dive dan telah menyelam di berbagai lokasi dan environment. Ini sangat keterlaluan dan amat sangat berbahaya. Dan dalam menghadapi kasus ini, mau tidak mau saya terpaksa menanyakan siapa instrukturnya, dan kemudian saya hubungi instruktur ybs sebagai sebuah moral obligation agar kompetensinya ditingkatkan. Menyedihkan banget gak kaya gitu?

So, instruktur seperti lae BK patut menjadi role-model, dan wajib menularkan passionnya sebagai instruktur kepada instruktur yang lain. Ini bagian dari kode etik kok, tujuannya baik dan bukan untuk menjatuhkan, melainkan untuk membuat kegiatan diving menjadi semakin aman dan menyenangkan bagi banyak orang.

Maybe you are not the best instructor with the best knowledge, but your passion will differ you from the rest.

Ngomong2.... ini forum enakan pake bahasa Indonesia ya... yang pake bahasa Inggris besok-besok postingnya di forum yang bagian bahasa Inggris aja deh ya. Saya ada terima komplin juga soalnya nih, kenapa ni forum jadi kaya scubaboard pake boso english terus! =))

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 Post subject: Re: Sidemount Courses
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 10:35 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:25 am
Posts: 399
Location: Sanur - Bali
Sidemount setup lain diluar Razor dan Hollis yang juga lagi "in":

XDEEP Stealth 2.0 : http://www.xdeep.eu/stealth-side-mount- ... pr-14.html (ini banyak sekali diver dari Europe yang mulai pake)

UTD Z-System : http://utdequipment.com/new/pages/syste ... mount.html

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