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 Post subject: Re: Sidemount Courses
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 3:13 pm 
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Mike Ooi wrote:
Side Mounting is one of the most simple configuration of a BCD


ok, "one of the" most simple configuration of a BCD then; & the other? what is the most ultimate simple configuration of a BCD? is there any? :o

but ok, i'll consider your suggestion to try SM; if my dive objections & conditions require it. thanks dude. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Sidemount Courses
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 3:18 pm 
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BotolKecap wrote:
Jangankan pakai sm, wong yg pakai bm pun tidak sedikit yg kesulitan jika belum pengalaman ditambah hasil didikan instruktur model miki mos.

Btw, pisahkan sm technical dan sm recreational. sm bisa single atau double. sm tidak wajib dipakai di air. dsb dsb. Jika dilakukan training sm recreational yg baik dan benar, mitos-mitos sm yg berupa asumsi dan penafsiran keliru diharapkan tidak lagi ada dan industri selam recreational di Indonesia akan lebih penuh warna. MERDEKA! \m/


saya ingin tahu lebih lagi; boleh dijabarkan bedanya SM technical dengan SM recreational? atau ada tautan yang menjelaskan pertanyaan saya itu? terima kasih ^:)^

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 Post subject: Re: Sidemount Courses
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 5:49 pm 
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ndr wrote:
saya ingin tahu lebih lagi; boleh dijabarkan bedanya SM technical dengan SM recreational? atau ada tautan yang menjelaskan pertanyaan saya itu? terima kasih ^:)^

Jika ingin tahu lebih lagi, disarankan (loh) untuk mengambil kursusnya bro, daripada repot berimajinasi SM rec itu seperti apa, trus kok bisa beda dengan tec SM, trus kok bisa dipakai di darat/boat ngga perlu di air, kok bisa backroll, kok bisa negative entry, kok bisa konfigurasinya lebih simpel, kok bisa hanya dengan single tank doank, kok bisa sama dengan BM pada umumnya, dsb dsb.

Dan kalo ingin tau tautannya, tinggal googling aja kok :D Nah, setelah di-googling dapat artikelnya tapi masih bingung juga bedanya apa, tolong spefisik bertanya bagian mana yang masih bingung, semoga gw bisa (dan ngga males) membantu menjawabnya...hehehehehe

FYI, di PADI Sidemount Diver & Tec Sidemount Diver Manual terbaru, jika hanya tertarik pada SM recreational, maka cukup mempelajari Bab 1 nya saja. Namun, jika tertarik pada SM tec, maka Bab 1 sampai 3 yang perlu dipelajari. Dan seperti perbedaan mendasar recreational dan tec pada umumnya, maka selain perbedaan pada konfigurasi gear, SM rec bukanlah deco dive. Semoga rasa ingin tahunya sedikit terobati \m/


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 Post subject: Re: Sidemount Courses
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 6:21 pm 
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BotolKecap wrote:
ndr wrote:
saya ingin tahu lebih lagi; boleh dijabarkan bedanya SM technical dengan SM recreational? atau ada tautan yang menjelaskan pertanyaan saya itu? terima kasih ^:)^

Jika ingin tahu lebih lagi, disarankan (loh) untuk mengambil kursusnya bro, daripada repot berimajinasi SM rec itu seperti apa, trus kok bisa beda dengan tec SM, trus kok bisa dipakai di darat/boat ngga perlu di air, kok bisa backroll, kok bisa negative entry, kok bisa konfigurasinya lebih simpel, kok bisa hanya dengan single tank doank, kok bisa sama dengan BM pada umumnya, dsb dsb.


tentu tidak repot berimajinasi dong, kan cuma tanya silabus & apa di konfigurasi peralatan (misalnya ada) membedakan tec dan rec, saya pikir tadinya tak serepot eh sepanjang penjelasan diatas, atau malah harus kursus. justru kalau googling nanti saya malah dibilang berimajinasi atau malah "cyber diving", karena itu semoga saya bertanya (juga tentang tautan) pada orang yang tepat ya, Oom BotolKecap.
kalau kenapa begini & kenapa begitu sepertinya termaktub di perbincangan dari halaman satu ya :ymdaydream:

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Last edited by ndr on Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Sidemount Courses
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 6:56 pm 
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ndr wrote:
tentu tidak repot berimajinasi dong, kan cuma tanya silabus & apa di konfigurasi peralatan (misalnya ada) membedakan tec dan rec, saya pikir tadinya tak serepot eh sepanjang penjelasan diatas, atau malah harus kursus. justru kalau googling nanti saya malah dibilang berimajinasi atau malah "cyber diving", karena itu semoga saya bertanya (juga tentang tautan) pada orang yang tepat ya, Om BotolKecap.

Sayangnya gw bukan orang yang tepat untuk ditanya hal beginian (silahkan berinterpretasi beginian itu apa) bro :D, silahkan tanya hal spesifik bukan berdasarkan asumsi. Dan lagi kalo googling trus takut dibilang berimajinasi, kita berasumsi donkkk ahhhh. Coba aja dulu googling, baru deh nanya ngga ngertinya di mana. Kita akan mendapat jawaban yang salah kalau pertanyaannya pun salah :x

Quote:
Kalau kenapa begini & kenapa begitu sepertinya termaktub di perbincangan dari halaman satu ya :ymdaydream:

Di halaman satu tidak ada termaktub soal kenapa begini dan begitu, hal ini baru bisa dirasakan sendiri ketika bro ndr sudah mencobanya (baca: ikut kursus). Seperti kata pepatah, tak KERAS maka tak sayang :))


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 Post subject: Re: Sidemount Courses
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 8:07 pm 
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BotolKecap wrote:
ndr wrote:
tentu tidak repot berimajinasi dong, kan cuma tanya silabus & apa di konfigurasi peralatan (misalnya ada) membedakan tec dan rec, saya pikir tadinya tak serepot eh sepanjang penjelasan diatas, atau malah harus kursus. justru kalau googling nanti saya malah dibilang berimajinasi atau malah "cyber diving", karena itu semoga saya bertanya (juga tentang tautan) pada orang yang tepat ya, Om BotolKecap.

Sayangnya gw bukan orang yang tepat untuk ditanya hal beginian (silahkan berinterpretasi beginian itu apa) bro :D, silahkan tanya hal spesifik bukan berdasarkan asumsi. Dan lagi kalo googling trus takut dibilang berimajinasi, kita berasumsi donkkk ahhhh. Coba aja dulu googling, baru deh nanya ngga ngertinya di mana. Kita akan mendapat jawaban yang salah kalau pertanyaannya pun salah :x

Quote:
Kalau kenapa begini & kenapa begitu sepertinya termaktub di perbincangan dari halaman satu ya :ymdaydream:

Di halaman satu tidak ada termaktub soal kenapa begini dan begitu, hal ini baru bisa dirasakan sendiri ketika bro ndr sudah mencobanya (baca: ikut kursus). Seperti kata pepatah, tak KERAS maka tak sayang :))


pertanyaan saya spesifik kok, silabus & bedanya tadi. asumsi saya cuma satu, penjelasannya panjang :))
but, thanks anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: Sidemount Courses
PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:39 am 
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ndr wrote:
pertanyaan saya spesifik kok, silabus & bedanya tadi.

Pertanyaan awal tidak spesifik bro...dan soal silabus dan bedanya, pan udah gw terangin di bagian FYI. Nah, kalo belom ngerti juga silahkan ditanya di mari...

Quote:
asumsi saya cuma satu, penjelasannya panjang :))
but, thanks anyway.
Oleh sebab itulah mari kita hindari asumsi apalagi yg terkait hal teknis. Untuk itu, jangan kapok nanya soal SM ya bro :x Seperti kata pepatah, malu bertanya KERAS di kamar =))


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 Post subject: Re: Sidemount Courses
PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:48 am 
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BotolKecap wrote:
ndr wrote:
asumsi saya cuma satu, penjelasannya panjang :))
but, thanks anyway.

Oleh sebab itulah mari kita hindari asumsi apalagi yg terkait hal teknis. Untuk itu, jangan kapok nanya soal SM ya bro :x Seperti kata pepatah, malu bertanya KERAS di kamar =))


kecuali asumsi bahwa penjelasanmu panjang, saya tidak berasumsi akan hal lain oom. bagaimana mungkin kalimat dengan tanda tanya menyatakan sebuah asumsi? jadi asumsi kamar itu KERAS? eh =))

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 Post subject: Re: Sidemount Courses
PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 8:37 am 
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ndr wrote:
BotolKecap wrote:
ndr wrote:
asumsi saya cuma satu, penjelasannya panjang :))
but, thanks anyway.

Oleh sebab itulah mari kita hindari asumsi apalagi yg terkait hal teknis. Untuk itu, jangan kapok nanya soal SM ya bro :x Seperti kata pepatah, malu bertanya KERAS di kamar =))


kecuali asumsi bahwa penjelasanmu panjang, saya tidak berasumsi akan hal lain oom. bagaimana mungkin kalimat dengan tanda tanya menyatakan sebuah asumsi? jadi asumsi kamar itu KERAS? eh =))



Bukannya mau nambahin tp sedikit menganjal aja nih. Bukannya lbh bener kl : " malu bertanya SENDIRIAN di kamar yah" hahahhaah

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 Post subject: Re: Sidemount Courses
PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:04 pm 
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guzh wrote:
Hi All,

Quick question; I'm interested on the sidemount... however, is it common for recreational diving?
Whether most Dive Center provide this kind of service or still very rare? Will the divemaster (as a buddy) will use the same config?

Just don't want the money spent to rack-up another cards, rather than to put into the practice.



Hi guzh,

i have been diving sidemount since 2010.. until now, i have been always on sidemount.

sidemount diving is just like any other dive. no different.

i think you have to know why you want to go sidemount??

several factors why people choose sidemount:-
#1. it is very light, small and compact. very easy to travel with especially for videographer and photographer with extra luggages. i do have a video system, 30kg extra.. LOL. and this sidemount is just perfect for me because of the compactness.
take a look at this video you will know what i am saying. by the way, the guy in the video is my friend.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofaNhwAb7UI

#2. i always love deep dive because i love narcosis feeling, the answer is i have to go deep to get narced. what if there is no twin tank set up at places like maldives? menjangan bali? (btw, menjangan have a very nice slop over 80meters!) side mount is the answer, you can hook 2? 3? 4? tanks as you like. not to mention, for technical divers this solution also avoid twin tank and manifold rental charges. sweet?

#3. the cool factor. you does look good on sidemount dont you?


anyway, back to your questions.

i would say, i have never seen any dive center provide sidemount equipment in Indonesia or Asia.. i hve seen it in philippines.. limited set though.

if you want your buddy to use the same set up, then you must be travelling with your buddy or DM?? otherwise i dont think so. but guess what?? it actually doesnt matter because other than the tank being on the side, all the procedures are still the same. you need air? grab the octopus. hard to find? i guess not.. when you see the tank, you will see the octopus.

and here is what i think on your last question. all bcd are practical. all bcs serve the same purpose that is go diving. the question is, what style of diving you need?? you want to look good? you want to travel light? or etc.. still ofcourse there are funny bcd in the market because ome manufacturer just copy other brand deign and sell it without know the function.

nevertheless, we all know to look good and be different we have to pay $$.. reality of the world. just like cars, you drive an avanza not so cool. you drive an Ferrari... cooooool man. but it cost extra.. LOL.

last but not least, always dont forget why we go scuba diving. have fun and be safe guys.

cant wait for my LOB trip to Palau on sidemount.. YEAH :-bd

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 Post subject: Re: Sidemount Courses
PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:24 pm 
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Posts: 36
Location: Singapore
rendra wrote:
guzh wrote:
Hi All,

Quick question; I'm interested on the sidemount... however, is it common for recreational diving?
Whether most Dive Center provide this kind of service or still very rare? Will the divemaster (as a buddy) will use the same config?

Just don't want the money spent to rack-up another cards, rather than to put into the practice.


My personal opinion, sidemount diving is a special purpose kind of diving configuration namely for tight overhead environment like caves.

The use of sidemount diving configuration in recreational ocean dive is more on the 'cool' factor as it is a hype at the moment. Other than this, I don't see the benefits of SM configuration except if you have a back injury. In ocean diving, sidemount diving, again I think, will be inferior compared to traditional backmount diving.

This is my frank personal opinion, not meant to say it is good or no good.

cheers,
rendra



you are right Rendra. long time no see.
in Asia, people regard this as special.. because this is still new here. you will be shock if you dive in US or Mex. I rarely see a backmount diver.

no doubt people dive sidemount because of cool factor. i am one of them. hhaahhahaahhah

i used to have this mentality too after diving sidemount for a year.. such a troublesome if you have many tanks. after i dive with HP Hartman and learn properly from the RAZOR courses, now i think another way round. im not using my backmount anymore.. be it a deep penetration dive or just a deep dive. infact sidemount feel way much more comfortable underwater if you do it properly.. it may be a little bit tricky at first. because if the weight distribution is not proper, you gonna get irritated.. haha.

for back injury, i think this is really good. provided if you have people to help you to carry your tanks down the water?

as i video a lot, and my buddy always gone missing, i found that sidemount really suits me. why? because with 2 tanks, i dare to say i am sufficient to dive alone without buddy except a shark eat me up :lol:
so it is not only for cave?? you have been diving twin manifold for so long, you know twin backmount not adviseable to do this right? but sidemount is fine..

if you talk about inferior, so far i found none. everything is just so streamline..
i easily jump into the water from boat.. i easily walk into the sea.. plus a big video cam :)

i love sidemount even more with a scooter! because of my streamline profile, my scooter always faster than anyone else.. heee.


anyway, i hope we can dive together in one of the shipwreck here rendra. i have been looking around for people to bring me to the wrecks in jakarta.

maybe we can exchange some pointers if possible to make diving more fun! see you around :ymparty:

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 Post subject: Re: Sidemount Courses
PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:07 pm 
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Posts: 73
DeepOcean wrote:
Hi guzh,

i have been diving sidemount since 2010.. until now, i have been always on sidemount.

sidemount diving is just like any other dive. no different.

i think you have to know why you want to go sidemount??

several factors why people choose sidemount:-
#1. it is very light, small and compact. very easy to travel with especially for videographer and photographer with extra luggages. i do have a video system, 30kg extra.. LOL. and this sidemount is just perfect for me because of the compactness.
take a look at this video you will know what i am saying. by the way, the guy in the video is my friend.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofaNhwAb7UI


I was expecting some excellent videos of you guys doing SM diving, but...
anyway it is really neat and compact indeed, although I thought for serious professionals divers extra luggage should be no problem as long as they got the right tools for the job/mission.

Quote:
#2. i always love deep dive because i love narcosis feeling, the answer is i have to go deep to get narced. what if there is no twin tank set up at places like maldives? menjangan bali? (btw, menjangan have a very nice slop over 80meters!) side mount is the answer, you can hook 2? 3? 4? tanks as you like. not to mention, for technical divers this solution also avoid twin tank and manifold rental charges. sweet?


Doing deep air and get narced is your preference and I would not criticize your choice. But if you're talking about additional/redundant gas supply (extra tanks), single tank BM backplate/wing with stage bottle clipped on your left D-rings serves the same purpose of having extra gas supply.

Quote:
#3. the cool factor. you does look good on sidemount dont you?


BM divers with perfect buoyancy control and horizontal trim IMO looked sexier, and magnet to girls in LOB... =))

Quote:
anyway, back to your questions.

i would say, i have never seen any dive center provide sidemount equipment in Indonesia or Asia.. i hve seen it in philippines.. limited set though.


This, in my honest opinion, meant that lots of people still think that recreational backmount BCD is still good/right tool for recreational diving, and might point out that actually there's no real advantage of SM over BM, other than the coolness factor...

Quote:
if you want your buddy to use the same set up, then you must be travelling with your buddy or DM?? otherwise i dont think so. but guess what?? it actually doesnt matter because other than the tank being on the side, all the procedures are still the same. you need air? grab the octopus. hard to find? i guess not.. when you see the tank, you will see the octopus.

and here is what i think on your last question. all bcd are practical. all bcs serve the same purpose that is go diving. the question is, what style of diving you need?? you want to look good? you want to travel light? or etc.. still ofcourse there are funny bcd in the market because ome manufacturer just copy other brand deign and sell it without know the function.

nevertheless, we all know to look good and be different we have to pay $$.. reality of the world. just like cars, you drive an avanza not so cool. you drive an Ferrari... cooooool man. but it cost extra.. LOL.

last but not least, always dont forget why we go scuba diving. have fun and be safe guys.

cant wait for my LOB trip to Palau on sidemount.. YEAH :-bd


Have fun and be safe, and please post your Palau LOB trip video here in FS!


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 Post subject: Re: Sidemount Courses
PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 4:15 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2012 2:52 am
Posts: 36
Location: Singapore
bongabonga wrote:
DeepOcean wrote:
Hi guzh,

i have been diving sidemount since 2010.. until now, i have been always on sidemount.

sidemount diving is just like any other dive. no different.

i think you have to know why you want to go sidemount??

several factors why people choose sidemount:-
#1. it is very light, small and compact. very easy to travel with especially for videographer and photographer with extra luggages. i do have a video system, 30kg extra.. LOL. and this sidemount is just perfect for me because of the compactness.
take a look at this video you will know what i am saying. by the way, the guy in the video is my friend.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofaNhwAb7UI


I was expecting some excellent videos of you guys doing SM diving, but...
anyway it is really neat and compact indeed, although I thought for serious professionals divers extra luggage should be no problem as long as they got the right tools for the job/mission.

Quote:
#2. i always love deep dive because i love narcosis feeling, the answer is i have to go deep to get narced. what if there is no twin tank set up at places like maldives? menjangan bali? (btw, menjangan have a very nice slop over 80meters!) side mount is the answer, you can hook 2? 3? 4? tanks as you like. not to mention, for technical divers this solution also avoid twin tank and manifold rental charges. sweet?


Doing deep air and get narced is your preference and I would not criticize your choice. But if you're talking about additional/redundant gas supply (extra tanks), single tank BM backplate/wing with stage bottle clipped on your left D-rings serves the same purpose of having extra gas supply.

Quote:
#3. the cool factor. you does look good on sidemount dont you?


BM divers with perfect buoyancy control and horizontal trim IMO looked sexier, and magnet to girls in LOB... =))

Quote:
anyway, back to your questions.

i would say, i have never seen any dive center provide sidemount equipment in Indonesia or Asia.. i hve seen it in philippines.. limited set though.


This, in my honest opinion, meant that lots of people still think that recreational backmount BCD is still good/right tool for recreational diving, and might point out that actually there's no real advantage of SM over BM, other than the coolness factor...

Quote:
if you want your buddy to use the same set up, then you must be travelling with your buddy or DM?? otherwise i dont think so. but guess what?? it actually doesnt matter because other than the tank being on the side, all the procedures are still the same. you need air? grab the octopus. hard to find? i guess not.. when you see the tank, you will see the octopus.

and here is what i think on your last question. all bcd are practical. all bcs serve the same purpose that is go diving. the question is, what style of diving you need?? you want to look good? you want to travel light? or etc.. still ofcourse there are funny bcd in the market because ome manufacturer just copy other brand deign and sell it without know the function.

nevertheless, we all know to look good and be different we have to pay $$.. reality of the world. just like cars, you drive an avanza not so cool. you drive an Ferrari... cooooool man. but it cost extra.. LOL.

last but not least, always dont forget why we go scuba diving. have fun and be safe guys.

cant wait for my LOB trip to Palau on sidemount.. YEAH :-bd


Have fun and be safe, and please post your Palau LOB trip video here in FS!


yes, extra luggage is not a problem.. but you always want to reduce that.
and one more thing, the luggages you have the more custom officer would want to check on you. im quite irritated by this.. especially in the US. and if you are holding Indonesian passport that make it worse.. being called and ask this and that in about my luggage in US custom for several time :-?

point no 2 i do agree with you. thats what i did with my single tank previous. hence not really necessary to change to sidemount to have the extra tank. streamline take into consideration.

i love your 3rd point.. magnet magnet.. hahahah. for sure backplate does look sexy. but if the whole boat is full of BM divers then it no longer sexy.. heee.

yup, i mentioned that in my previous post, all bcd are still practical.. we are just flooded with many many choices in the recent years of diving. it just the cool factor that the diver looking for..

just like GUE, no colors allowed.. some find it cool some find it boring.. we are just full of choices nowaways, unlike the olden day.. lol.

i will try to share the Palau video once i got back. i heard there is a cave there.... yeeeha!

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 Post subject: Re: Sidemount Courses
PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 5:13 pm 
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just like GUE, no colors allowed.. some find it cool some find it boring.. we are just full of choices nowaways, unlike the olden day.. lol.



Hmm, just wondering where you got the information from that in GUE no colour is allowed?


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 Post subject: Re: Sidemount Courses
PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:18 pm 
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DeepOcean wrote:
bongabonga wrote:
DeepOcean wrote:

just like GUE, no colors allowed.. some find it cool some find it boring.. we are just full of choices nowaways, unlike the olden day.. lol.



Hi bro... how are you? First I'd like to congrats you for becoming a PSAI network, welcome to Indonesia :)

I never heard of GUE "no colors allowed" thing.... it's kinda weird if it's true don't you think? =))

GUE divers has been using very colorful gear and that's cool! =))

And regarding SM or BM, or other kind of configurations, it's all about diver comfort and safety. No one can guarantee that a system will give more comfort or more safety. It's a personal preference and ideally must be tried. So, for us whom have the more experience with the so many kind of configurations available, it's always good to share each personal experience with our fellow divers... This forum is about sharing anyway :smile:

The US and Mex story will be different with us, especially if we're talking about the Florida - Mexico diving destinations. Yes, they tend to move to SM, and it is mainly affected with the availability of caves and cavern in the area. For them it's not necessarily for doing deep penetration, but more on the logistical issues like carrying tanks from their truck to the cave entrance which in many case will be really painful for BM doubles.

There's always advantages and disadvantages, and thanks for this forum to provide us space to share these :smile:

I'm not a fanatic of traditional configuration as I've posted earlier. I will definitely dive SM when the environment requires so, no doubt. What matters are diving safety, comfort and excellence...

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