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 Post subject: Re: Sidemount Courses
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:57 am 
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Hi All,

Quick question; I'm interested on the sidemount... however, is it common for recreational diving?
Whether most Dive Center provide this kind of service or still very rare? Will the divemaster (as a buddy) will use the same config?

Just don't want the money spent to rack-up another cards, rather than to put into the practice.


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 Post subject: Re: Sidemount Courses
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 10:05 am 
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Posts: 1564
cobain aja.. menarik koq..

nantinya yang mempopulerkan ya kudunya para sidemount diver ini, termasuk yang mau ambil course :D

yess.. lebih enak buddy nya/DM nya pake configurasi yang sama, udah mulai ada koq operator nya

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 Post subject: Re: Sidemount Courses
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:22 pm 
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guzh wrote:
Hi All,

Quick question; I'm interested on the sidemount... however, is it common for recreational diving?
Whether most Dive Center provide this kind of service or still very rare? Will the divemaster (as a buddy) will use the same config?

Just don't want the money spent to rack-up another cards, rather than to put into the practice.


Hi Guzh,

In today's diving pleasure, sidemount diving is already getting more and more popular because of the flexibility in configuration of equipment and less weight when considering flight baggage allowance.

Dive Centre Support

When considering Dive Centre service to diver, yes till now not a lot of dive centre or resort can provide much service to sidemount diver. But when you did a proper course, your instructor will be able to teach you how to setup your own gear. As for sidemount tanks, actually you can also use the normal tank that you find in any regular dive centre. The only thing is you most know how to configure your tank to sit nicely on your side. Start of dive, you can jump into the water with no tanks or with one tank. As the boat guy to pass you the other tank if you are doing 2 tanks dives. End of dive, you just pass both tanks to the boat guy, and you climb out of the boat nice and easy. Now you can see some benefits of sidemount diving.

DiveMaster or Buddy

If either of them is not doing sidemount, you can still do. When you choose to do single side sidemount dive, there is no much different with a single tank backmount diver. But when you do 2 tanks sidemount dive, you are already adding a big safety factor to the team you diving with. Because you are carrying a extra tank and is totally independent from your the other tank. So if there is a air crisis, as simple as I said, just pass one side of the tank to the diver. Is just so easy when you had your training right and you know actually what you are doing.

As sidemount diving had come to today, it had already benefit a lot of divers with back problem.

I hope I had provided you with information and now you understand sidemount diving a bit more.

If you have more queries, feel free to discuss or you can drop by out shop I can make you a coffee and we can discuss more in a relax enviroment.

Have a nice day.

< Plan your dive,Dive your plan >

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D'X Mike Ooi
PADI Divemaster #323232


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 Post subject: Re: Sidemount Courses
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:33 pm 
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guzh wrote:
is it common for recreational diving?

Setahun terakhir ini common om. PADI Sidemount Diver Specialty salah satunya, bisa double tank atau single tank. Prasyarat minimalnya cukup OW dan usia 15 tahun. Walau begitu, amat dianjurkan bagi yg sudah tidak bermasalah urusan buoyancy.

Quote:
Whether most Dive Center provide this kind of service or still very rare?

Masih teramat jarang om.

Quote:
Will the divemaster (as a buddy) will use the same config?

tidak perlu, buddy bisa dgn backmount.

Quote:
Just don't want the money spent to rack-up another cards, rather than to put into the practice.

Kalo tertarik, silahkan japri saya om, kebetulan lagi mo buka kelas, siapa tahu cocok dgn sidemount pas nyoba.


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 Post subject: Re: Sidemount Courses
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:25 pm 
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Location: Jakarta
guzh wrote:
Hi All,

Quick question; I'm interested on the sidemount... however, is it common for recreational diving?
Whether most Dive Center provide this kind of service or still very rare? Will the divemaster (as a buddy) will use the same config?

Just don't want the money spent to rack-up another cards, rather than to put into the practice.


My personal opinion, sidemount diving is a special purpose kind of diving configuration namely for tight overhead environment like caves.

The use of sidemount diving configuration in recreational ocean dive is more on the 'cool' factor as it is a hype at the moment. Other than this, I don't see the benefits of SM configuration except if you have a back injury. In ocean diving, sidemount diving, again I think, will be inferior compared to traditional backmount diving.

This is my frank personal opinion, not meant to say it is good or no good.

cheers,
rendra

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BBeXplorers - Indonesia's Center for Diving Excellence | GUE Affiliate | We provide: Diver Training, EFR Training, Halcyon Dive Systems | Need info on joining DAN? E-mail me: rendra [at] banyubiru.org | Join our group on facebook: Banyu Biru Explorers


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 Post subject: Re: Sidemount Courses
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 2:21 pm 
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Hi all,

Wow, this is really a very interesting topic. Let me see how I can input to maybe help divers to understand better.

As of me, I always believe that most diver out there will have the interest to always increase and upgrade their knowledge about diving then ever there is a opportunity. By doing so, you will always will be in the ford front of diving and becoming a better diver in terms of skills and knowledge.

For example :
Steve Job launch their 1st Apple phone in the world, there no one's know that there will be a touch screen smart phone can do some many things and help individual in their aspect of life.

Is just like whether a person wants to walk out of their comfort zone and experience something new and different from before so to enjoy better in the sport.

Lets recall...
Example - From Horse Shoe Collar BCD into Jacket BCD and now into Backplate BCD.

It may or may not be beneficial to the individual, but at least the individual had already not knowingly increase their knowledge and maybe skills in that aspect the individual is doing.

Is just my thoughts and experience from the years that I'm taught and learn from experience divers and instructor out there.

I hope my input is good enough to help in a way. Have a nice day guys.

< Plan your dive,Dive your plan >

Cheers

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D'X Mike Ooi
PADI Divemaster #323232


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 Post subject: Re: Sidemount Courses
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:54 pm 
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Location: Jakarta
It's getting more interesting :D

For me, my expectation is after I got the knowledge/following the course... then it's applicable for practice/become practical (with consideration # of DC availability and not disregard the cost of sidemount vs. backmount per dives)

Therefore to get comprehensive information & advice, which I believe a lot of seasoned-divers in this forum, it'll be more decisive in term of:
1. At the moment; spending money wiser: sidemount course cost vs. invest on diving equipment first?
2. Timing; will it more "feasible" to do in near future when more DC offering this config become more common?

So, still watching and grasping the discussion...


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 Post subject: Re: Sidemount Courses
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 1:08 am 
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Posts: 312
ketika sosro memperkenalkan teh dalam kemasan botol pertama kali, tidak sedikit yg apatis. begitu pula ketika aqua memperkenalkan air minum dalam kemasan. butuh waktu agar masyarakat pada umumnya menerima sesuatu hal yang baru, terlepas akankah sukses atau tidak.

sidemount bagi fun dive sendiri merupakan sesuatu yang baru, PADI sendiri baru 1,5 tahun ini memperkenalkannya. tentu ada beberapa hal positif SM dibanding BM. BCD-nya sendiri masih terbilang langka di sini, apalagi instrukturnya. Sesuai hukum ekonomi, maka investasi per orangnya untuk SM saat ini boleh dibilang tidak murah. jika masih ragu mencoba SM atau terlalu banyak pertanyaan yang jawabannya juga terlalu luas, SM bukan pilihan yang bijak saat ini.

tapi jika uang bukan masalah dan atau anda open mind terhadap hal baru, SM boleh dicoba. MERDEKA!! :ympeace:


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 Post subject: Re: Sidemount Courses
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 3:14 pm 
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Sidemount diving is not a new technology, it's been used for almost a century in cave explorations.

Diver uses sidemount configuration for a special purpose, and I think it is the way we should think, purpose oriented. It's like using the right tool for the right job.

Learning sidemount diving of course is not a bad thing at all if you have the opportunity and fortune. It's always good to learn and try new things although we might not need it in actual life.

From practicality point of view, I think traditional configuration is far more practical and has very little compatibility issues compared to SM diving. At least for the moment. Many dive centers are not ready for SM configuration as it requires a lot of new investment.

Performancewise, I don't think SM configuration could do better than traditional back mount in ocean diving. It will be a big hassle and adds more risk diving in SM configuration at ocean environment with choppy surface and big currents.

I'm not against SM configuration. When doing deep penetration in tight space, sidemount configuration could become a practical method/ more preferred way. But in general I like BM more because of various reasons that makes me feel comfortable and safe underwater.

The SM hype is just like the tech hype when technical diving becomes more popular about 4-5 years ago. Many tech wannabe are looking for a way to look like a tec diver. A little example, many gear producers manufactured 'tech looking' BCD at that time. The perception was that tec divers uses a specific BCD with so many D-rings as attachment point for their gear. While the truth is not like that (Tech divers uses only 6 D-rings which are two on chest, two on waist, and last two at crotch harness), BCD with so many chest D-rings became so popular with majority portion of the users are tec wannabe, not real tec. Why? Simply because it looks cool. But then there are drawbacks where divers tends to hang so many accessories that makes them vulnerable for entanglement and may damage the environment.

The current SM popularity is more on the cool factor. People loves to be recognized for a certain specialty, and cave divers are good example of cool looking divers :D.

So, again we should think about the cost and benefits in choosing for the right diving configuration. Diving an environment with the best performing configuration would make a very good dive.

Happy learning!

Cheers,
rendra

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 Post subject: Re: Sidemount Courses
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 7:12 pm 
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Wow, let's have a little discussion.

Scenario : Choppy Sea and BIG current "Umm...dive?" maybe (If stormy weather i will choose not to risk my life, maybe even choppy sea with BIG current)

But is all about discussion.

Getting into water

SM :
- diver can choose to rig on tank, go into water or;
- go in with SM on, bladder inflated, boat people past tank (**NOTE: diver in water with flotation device) for this, it really depend on the diver comfort level and skill capability

BM :
- diver go into water with tank on or;
- ask boat people to pass BC into water (**NOTE: diver in water without flotation device) same it really depend on diver comfort level and skill capability.

Getting out of water

SM :
- diver get out of water with tanks on or;
- remove tank pass to boat people (**NOTE: diver in water with flotation device)

BM :
- diver get out of water with tanks on or;
- remove tank pass to boat people (**NOTE: diver in water without flotation device)

As for "Hype" factor, I always believe that maybe all people would like to look cool and nice in all aspect of life (may not be "VERY COOL" just a little to satisfy self thoughts for the fun of it. After all diving is about having fun.). As for this topic, is about diving. Being "Cool" is one thing. As long as the individual had its skills and knowledge builded properly and trained. Constantly practice.

At the end of the day, whether Sidemount or Backmount is just a equipment with different configuration. Doing SM or BM, is just increasing the individual's knowledge and skill set and making the individual better in water skills and building up the comfort level of the diver underwater.

< Plan your dive,Dive your plan >

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D'X Mike Ooi
PADI Divemaster #323232


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 Post subject: Re: Sidemount Courses
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 7:43 pm 
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:D :D :D :D

lanjuuutttt

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 Post subject: Re: Sidemount Courses
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 8:08 pm 
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I wouldn't dive in stormy weather.... :D

Imagine diving wrecks in the blue water with big swell and currents (many spots in our country have this typical environment).

I will enter the water fully equipped, including my stage/ deco bottles. There's no way I will enter the water with something left on deck and have someone throw me that whatever gear or tanks. In traditional BM configuration I think this is much easier (gaining balance on deck) because we will be more streamlined. Yes, it's gonna be heavy, but the pain will immediately gone once you are in the water. In SM configuration, I think this will be more difficult except you will have someone pass you the tanks while you are in the water.

On the PADI SM training, there is a review on the pros and cons between SM and BM diving configuration which I think is fairly disclosed. Students will understand the advantages or disadvantages during the training. Through this topic we are trying to discuss from the laymen perspective about SM diving configuration.

In the PADI SM training, one of the benefits described is that SM is a matter of comfort and personal choice. This is very true. So, dive with whatever configuration that gives you the more comfort.

On the disadvantages or cons, the training material has put quite a long list:
- extra training and practice required
- extra task loading
- less stable
- more difficult to control
- more difficult to standardize procedure
- more difficult to use from a boat or shore
- not practical to use on land

On the safety subject, is sidemount safer? The answer is no. Although sidemount diving is the safer configuration it allows you to get into tighter, more confined areas. These areas present inherent risk factors to a greater degree:
- silt outs
- entanglement
- entrapment

Now let's discuss the pros or advantages of SM over BM configuration (which is quite a long list also):
Is sidemount safer? The answer is yes:
- true gas redundancy
- better protection of tanks, valves, first stages and hand wheels
- better visibility of critical life-support components
- greater flex and better solutions for failures and emergencies

What are the benefits of SM configuration? It's a long list (see... I'm not negating SM configuration ;) )...
- comfort/ personal choice
- physical problems
- ease of travel
- safer option
- logistical consideration
- remote diving locations
- difficult access & restricted environment

So, why I still opt for BM? Simple answer: I feel comfortable with this configuration, it's practical and we should have no compatibility issue almost anywhere in the world. Will I dive SM? For sure, when the environment requires me to... Well actually I do have my deco and stage bottles sidemounted on my tec trips... :D

For those seeking to learn SM diving, please do ask and explore about it. Keep learning!

Cheers!
rendra

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 Post subject: Re: Sidemount Courses
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 3:00 am 
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rendra wrote:
In the PADI SM training, one of the benefits described is that SM is a matter of comfort and personal choice. This is very true. So, dive with whatever configuration that gives you the more comfort.

On the disadvantages or cons, the training material has put quite a long list:
- extra training and practice required
- extra task loading
- less stable
- more difficult to control
- more difficult to standardize procedure
- more difficult to use from a boat or shore
- not practical to use on land

Sekadar menambahkan, di PADI SM Training akan dijelaskan 7 kelebihan menggunakn SM Specialty untuk recreational diving, dan 3 kelemahannya. Tidak ada satu poin pun yang spesifik menyebutkan soal comfort dan personal choice, namun jika ketujuh poin tersebut ditafsirkan ke dalam soal comfort dan personal choice, itu cerita lain.

Dan segala kelemahan SM yang ditafsirkan di postingan sebelumnya, tidak ada bedanya ketika kita menafsirkan kelemahan ketika belajar diving untuk pertama kali. Walau begitu, saya sependapat dengan om Rendra bahwa ini masalah pilihan dan diperlukan training lanjutan untuk memahaminya. Tidak mudah menerima sesuatu hal yang baru, tapi seperti kata pepatah, tak kenal maka tak sayang...semoga SM mendapat tempat tersendiri di dunia selam di Indonesia. MERDEKA! :-bd


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 Post subject: Re: Sidemount Courses
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 12:34 pm 
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@lae BK: koreksi dikit.. tak KERAS maka tak sayang :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Sidemount Courses
PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 12:48 pm 
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SCUBAMART Mangga Dua Indonesia


The Razor Side Mount System - Wherever U Dive

Hi guys ,

Please have a click below this link :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF536M8Bun0

Just here to share some video about Razor Sidemount Course.

Have a nice day and dive safe.

< Plan your dive,Dive your plan >

Cheers

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D'X Mike Ooi
PADI Divemaster #323232


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